Comments on: Card Mills: Give ‘em Shelter?

By: Travel Weakly: To YTB or To Not YTB

Travel Weakly: To YTB or To Not YTB — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 12:28:11 +0000

[...] List doubles TW’s circulation and keeps YTB recruits reading TW. Other publications, like TRO and Travel Agent, have openly denounced YTB’s methods. TW’s numbers must be off the [...]

By: George

George — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 22:14:26 +0000

Appreciate the info guys, thanks

By: Linda

Linda — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 01:48:03 +0000

So, I registered and listened in on what was being said. I noticed most speakers spoke with great caution to avoid being sued. I found it interesting that I, a “Referring Travel Agent” from a so called “Card Mill” company, knew more about the new CLIA requiremetns than any so called “Professional Travel Agent” on the call. Before assuming that all referring agents don’t make money selling travel, you should really check the statistics of those that do sell travel. Since “home-based professional agents” are concerned with not meeting the CLIA requirements, I suggest you do an “industry -wide” analysis of their results and see how many, on average, make any more than I do! I have personally sold my 25 required cabins for CLIA qualification…and it didn’t take me the 2 years that CLIA allows, it only took me 3 months and it was in the worse economic times ever! I do this “part-time” but I have achieved the highest rank in course training that Princess and Cunard offer. That is why you feel a need to stop me and the company I am affiliated with!

By: Adrienne

Adrienne — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:27:44 +0000

It sickens my stomach when I am attending a travel industry function and “wanna be” travel consultants are there. They try to recruit real agents to their group which is laughable. Then all they want to know is “what’s the trip they are giving away?”

The suppliers must take a clear stand on who they permit to sell their product. If the suppliers shut out the card mills, then effectively, they are shut down. It is also up to ASTA and CLIA to tighten their regulations. IATAN has done so by compellling agents to now apply each year with proof of income in order to retain their ID.

We need to put the word “professional” back in the travel industry. Can you imagine your neighbor giving you advise about the law because a lawyer told him he could if he pays him $500.00 a year? Would you buy insurance from someone not licensed to sell insurance?

We need numbers to yell it out to the suppliers and the public….NO MORE CARD MILLS

By: Suraj Zutshi, CTC, CTIE

Suraj Zutshi, CTC, CTIE — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 03:02:29 +0000

A great and timely article indeed. Take a look at responses on similar aricles – a handful of professional travel counselors and YTB or similar outside sales agents – we are serious about our chosen career so lets not get upset at each other. It’s the other 90-95% pretend, part-time travel agents we are complaining about and hold in disdain. In the last 28 years, I have never sold less than $500,000 and even crossed the million dollar mark a few times.
However,it is also the suppliers who laugh while reading all these comments. They keep getting sales and as one of the cruses reps told me ‘as long as numbers are there, we will worlk with whoever’. ASTA is a mere shell of what it used to be; I am not sure if ARTA is even around; CLIA is a joke. The Travel Institute or IATAN are the only one’s even interested in some standards of professionalism.
If the good YTB agents do not want to be held in disdain then tell me why some have come into my office and get me to sign up? Why, at a tradeshow, they were trying to sign up the bartender? Why, at the St. Louis conference, one of them tried to sign up the bus driver? What are you really selling – travel or a MLM? That is what we complain about. Most of YTB agents know they cannot make it in selling travel so they go for the MLM aspect, admit it. To buy your own travel to save 4-5%, is not selling travel. Today, I had a $40,000 sale day which included six cruise cabins, a 14 day all-inclusive tour to Italy, a trip to Myanmar and eight international tickets. When did any of you do that? I do that on a weekly basis and that is why we get upset when we hear of card mill members using up fam trip space even though you have no idea what a true fam trip is. How may of you on this weekend’s cruise to nowhere on board the new Carnival Splendor from San Francisco? I bet no one and if you are, you have earned it. And you, I welcome to the ranks of travel counselors/advisors.
Let’s get the suppliers to take responsibility NOW. They are the ones allowing it.

By: Fred Kerner

Fred Kerner — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 17:32:34 +0000

I have one question for those of you from YTB. “How much did any of you earn from booking travel in 2008?” I personally did a little over $500,000 in gross sales last year. I would be very surprised if any of you YTB’ers even come close to that. I’m not bragging but I’m a firm believer that you need to work full time in this business to really know how it works. You need to be thouroughly familiar with the various travel suppliers and destinations that they offer. We are travel professionals not part-time sellers of travel. I’ve seen plenty of YTB people at seminars and it’s obvious they are there just for the perks. I’ve even experienced YTB agents coming into our agency office and trying to recruit us into their program. That takes a lot of nerve. The execs at YTB are the ones making all the money. Not you! Send me an email and tell me how much travel you have time to book when you’re not working in your full time job. My address is fkerner@grandviewtravel.com.

By: Larry D Swerdlin, CTC

Larry D Swerdlin, CTC — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 17:19:20 +0000

Once again I will say thanks for an excellent article highlighting — over may paragraphs — the key concept: without a definition of what a travel consultant is, anyone is free to enter and abuse the market. I feel like a broken record as I again say:

1. We should abandon the title/job description of “agent” to be replaced by consultant
2. We should charge for and be paid for our consulting activity — not our sales activity. This is a very painful thing to grasp and means we need to ween ourselves from our opiate like addition to commissions to be replaced by fee income. The airlines forced us to do it and those of us still around and consulting in the air/transportation arena are better and stronger for it.
3. There needs to be some definition of travel consultant which stems from a recognized course of study followed by meaningful testing resulting in certification against which we can then be registered. Either ASTA steps up to the plate to lead this charge or someone else will; I only fear it will not ultimately happen until our entire segment of the industry is descimated beyond repair.

The only downside to the above: the travel media would have to figure out another angle about which to report — since everything we now read about on page 1 would go away. As for me, that would certainly be an excellent outcome!

By: Aleic

Aleic — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 19:45:11 +0000

I agree with you all that the card mills do nothing in general to help the plight of the travel agent and furthermore, have caused divsion amongst some vendors and agents. However, lets not forget it isnt just the cardmills at fault here. Its the general population that has been hooked up to the nipple and fed with the belief that they deserve a deal on everything. Travel just happens to be one of the most common things. You only have to look around almost any corner, in any city or town and you will run into a Walmart Super Center. Its no mistake they have been booming before our ecenomic bust and will continue to do long after. Why, because the right to a low price is the god given right of every American, even if the ignorence to that fact is only now just rearing its ugly head. Fact is for over 40 years we were taught and basically commanded to “BUY” and the drive to find a deal and expect it is a natural reaction to that. Cardmills do not help the industry but lets not forget to at least address part of the reason they exist… I believe Gordon Gekko said it best… greed it good

By: Gregg Welpe

Gregg Welpe — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:00:13 +0000

My disdain is aimed for the suppliers and trade show organizers that cater to these RTA’s. How can I get a supplier’s attention as a small agency when the Card Mills are showered with attention by our suppliers. As far as trade shows go, how can I get a seat at the table when all are taken by these RTA’s???

By: Mary

Mary — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 00:38:13 +0000

Given the SEC filings on YTB that show a company in disarray I do not understand why anyone would stay with them. If you are serious about selling travel there are plenty of hosts to align yourself with that pay better and offer a better commission split.

As to the comment above about being shunned at 360 it is quite simple if you don’t want to be shunned—leave them and join another host.

Great article as usual Richard. I look forward to the webinar.